Curse

faraaz · Aug 12, 2008, 08:17 PM // 20:17

Okay, here's my problem...I'm trying to rush my Ele through EoTN and get her vanguard rank up (for obvious reasons

). I'd played her through EoTN till I hit Curse of the Nornbear, got disgusted with Meteor Shower doing 35 dmg at 16 Fire (WTF?) and put her on the shelf, until I was motivated recently to get her up to speed.

Now here's my problem. I've struggled through the Asura part of the quests, mostly thanks to uber hero builds and micro management

. Giving up on doing any decent damage on my own, I switched to SF ele hoping that the burning would do some decent damage over time. The energy cost for this tactic was laughable, so I switched to Air ele, using B-Surge, Invoke Lightning plus spreading around weakening, cracked armor etc.

Finally, I settled on earth, with the following build:

[build;OgJTkY2iNiV4UIScHCWIVA54uEA]

Does KD, AoE blind, ward for blocking ridiculously overpowered melee and unsteady ground recharges pretty fast thanks to SQ. Of course, I only do like 10 damage with 16 in Earth...but that's pretty much a lost cause.

So I believe the point of this thread is..WTF? Why are elementalists reduced to glorified condition spreaders in EoTN? Is there something I'm missing? Is there like a super secret build which completely owns EoTN but I just cant see it? I need help here. I'm about to delete my Ele because of how crap she is >.<.

PS: I dont have all the PvE skills yet, because obviously I haven't gotten her all the way through EoTN >.>

I Will Heal You Ally · Aug 12, 2008, 08:22 PM // 20:22

well monsters are just resistant to fire magic like destroyers and some others... I prefer a spiker with bsurge, orb, javelin and some armor ignorating skills then fire

Martin Firestorm · Aug 12, 2008, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Go cap assassin's promise if you have factions (an easy cap near an outpost), and go sin secondary with 10 or so in deadly arts. Now all the slow recharging ele skills become more viable options and you'll have much better energy management. I'd still go fire and bring skills like searing heat, tenai's heat, etc., and bring a ranger with winter when I'm in areas with a lot of fire resistant foes. Earth skills would be my second choice, but I always prefer fire if possible. BTW, if you go SF you gotta carry glyph of lesser energy for energy management, and maybe glowing gaze also. Getting you run like a dwarf to KD/cripple foes in your aoe would really help you out a lot. My ele sailed through EOTN with just a few problems--they're not crap in EOTN at all.

EDIT: you do realize the first SF does damage over time, but the next couple that hit while your foes are burning do huge aoe damage?

faraaz · Aug 12, 2008, 08:51 PM // 20:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martin Firestorm

Go cap assassin's promise if you have factions (an easy cap near an outpost), and go sin secondary with 10 or so in deadly arts. Now all the slow recharging ele skills become more viable options and you'll have much better energy management. I'd still go fire and bring skills like searing heat, tenai's heat, etc., and bring a ranger with winter when I'm in areas with a lot of fire resistant foes. Earth skills would be my second choice, but I always prefer fire if possible. BTW, if you go SF you gotta carry glyph of lesser energy for energy management, and maybe glowing gaze also. Getting you run like a dwarf to KD/cripple foes in your aoe would really help you out a lot. My ele sailed through EOTN with just a few problems--they're not crap in EOTN at all.

EDIT: you do realize the first SF does damage over time, but the next couple that hit while your foe is burning do huge damage?

I do have Assassin's promise, and that is the elite I was using when I tried the Glyph of Sacrifice + Meteor Shower build. The damage output is less than half what you would get in any high end PvE area in NF or Factions or Proph for that matter. That in essence, is my issue with EoTN.

As for Fire, it's completely dependent on Winter, and that's kinda hard to do when you are doing some of the areas which require that you move around, seeing as how the recharge on winter is 1 minute. Not negligible by any means.

And I know about how SF works, which is why I nixed that idea. The problem I have with using AP with my Ele is that it takes up my elite slot, and that means no Unsteady Ground :/. I really like being able to AoE KD the mobs to be honest.

Cherng Butter · Aug 12, 2008, 08:58 PM // 20:58

In higher-end PvE I tend to consider eles as characters to bring ok damage and party utility (or you could go E/A and churn out AP, Finish Him! and Ebon Vanguard Sins...). Your build actually looks pretty good. I'd drop stone daggers for something else though, maybe Magnetic Surge or another good ward.

EinherjarMx · Aug 12, 2008, 09:01 PM // 21:01

[build=blah;OgVCoMzEZ1SAwguQR0aJcJuA]
i change fireball for searing heat
3>2>1>4>5 with 6,7 & 8 precasted of course

Martin Firestorm · Aug 12, 2008, 09:02 PM // 21:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

I do have Assassin's promise, and that is the elite I was using when I tried the Glyph of Sacrifice + Meteor Shower build. The damage output is less than half what you would get in any high end PvE area in NF or Factions or Proph for that matter. That in essence, is my issue with EoTN.

As for Fire, it's completely dependent on Winter, and that's kinda hard to do when you are doing some of the areas which require that you move around, seeing as how the recharge on winter is 1 minute. Not negligible by any means.

And I know about how SF works, which is why I nixed that idea. The problem I have with using AP with my Ele is that it takes up my elite slot, and that means no Unsteady Ground :/. I really like being able to AoE KD the mobs to be honest.

Glyph of sacrifice really has no place on a pve bar, I think. Meteor shower is just ok anyway, but jacking up the recharge time with a sac makes it pretty weak. Ranger heroes are ok with winter, which you don't need everywhere anyway, but if you disable it and make them manually cast it as you're approaching a mob you'll have it up nearly all the time. Unsteady ground is pretty good, but the attacking condition means you're not KD'ing the whole mob. My problem with the earth line is the rest of the bar unless you have a few pve only skills to add to it, which you said you don't. I just don't like most of the offensive earth skills, churning earth being the main exception (and its still pretty conditional).

Lishy · Aug 12, 2008, 09:25 PM // 21:25

Heres a tip for destroyers:
I would recommend going a Water ele with a shatterstone water spike using [Mindbender] and [Snow Storm]

I love using Water eles, but the problem with them is the lack of general skills. However PvE skills will solve that problem

A general strategy would be to use [Dwarven Stability] on [serpent's quickness] to quickly recharge [shatterstone] [Mindbender] and [Snow Storm]

Don't forget [Glowing Ice] [Glyph of lesser energy] and [Water Attunement] for E-management.

[Vapor Blade] can also be used, but it is very costly in energy.

Richardt · Aug 12, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

I really like both [[savannah heat] and [[unsteady ground] in EotN.

I run this on a hero in several HM dungeons and does fine:

[build prof=e/n earth=11+1+2 curses=8 energystorage=11+1][unsteady ground][eruption][stoning][enfeebling blood][glowstone][earth attunement][glyph of lesser energy][ward against melee][/build]

If you want to incorporate some PvE skills, try dropping [[enfeebling blood] (tput it on a hero or something) and take [[great dwarf weapon] and throw that on a physical.

Winterclaw · Aug 12, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

I got my el through GWEN just fine and I'm usually running a water build of some sort. If you are having damage problems, try using applying cracked armor with [shell shock] or something similar. It helps a little.

AeneaSelenium · Aug 12, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Here's what I used to complete EoTN with H/H with great success. Feel free to try it out (or just take some ideas/suggestions from it):

Me: Ele/xx 15 Air, 12 ES

Shellshock
Lightning Orb
Enerv Charge
Lightning Strike
Energy blast
PI (or anything else you like if you haven't unlocked it yet)
Air Attun
Elem Attune (E)

Heroes:
Gwen (Dom/interrupt)
Livia (MM)
Vekk (Earth warder)

Hench:
1 heal, 1 prot, plus whatever else I was in the mood for

Keep both attunements up on yourself (easy to do in EoTN, not many mobs strip enchants) and blast away with armor penetrating or armor ignoring damage. Livia will be able to keep up a large army of minions to body block mobs. Sit back, call your target and spike. Rinse and repeat. Once you unlock it, PI takes care of any AoE bosses real quick. You can also swap in Chain Lightning if you want some meager AoE, but I don't care for exhaustion myself. Vekks wards (esp Ward Against Melee) are indespensible and he uses them very well. On Gwen, I hardly touched her default skill bar (mostly out of laziness), but she's still an awesome interrupter, esp with you calling targets.

Don't bother with fire- its great against those huge mobs in Factions, but not so great in EoTN as you figured out, which I think was a conscious move by Anet (Destroyers immune to burning) to get ppl to play other elements. You need damage that bypasses/reduces the higher AL mobs generally have.

Good luck!

petrorabbit · Aug 12, 2008, 09:52 PM // 21:52

EotN was good for elementalist players, forcing them out of their comfort zone of burning everything and trying out other elements.

I burned my way through all the other campaigns with Searing Flames, and with EotN i found a few good combos.

For air:

Pain Inverter
Blinding Surge
Lightning Orb
Lightning Hammer
Air attunement
Glyph of Lesser Energy
Auspicious Incantation
Epidemic

That build was very fun to play.

The other combo I used for earth was primarily Eruption + Glyph of Renewal for constant damage and near permablind. Throw in Pain Inverter, Earth Attunement and whatever else you feel like. Notice the theme?

If you haven't already, get to asuran territory to get Pain Inverter, one of the most useful PvE only skills in the game.

And the one thing you should learn from playing the other elements is the utility you bring to your group whether its full of AIs or idiots. Mass blind = damage mitigation, cracked armor = DPS boost for your group. Burning your way through the game is not always the best option.

Desert Rose · Aug 12, 2008, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by faraaz

As for Fire, it's completely dependent on Winter (...)

Nope, cause Winter chance the damage type after damage calculation, so you will do the same among of damage. The only difference is that in one case, you will do, lets say, 50 cold damage, in the other case 50 fire damage, but in both cases you will do 50 damage.

But back to topic: I would suggest a earth ele with Assassin's Promise, like the one here.

Aneres · Aug 12, 2008, 10:40 PM // 22:40

[frozen burst] [club of a thousand bears] [keen chop] [eviscerate] [armor of mist] ['I am the strongest!"] [conjure frost] ["you move like a dwarf!"] - yes, on an ele

Hero team: An MM of your preference and 2x AP Nukers, Mhenlo, Lina, Cynn and Lo Sha.
Use an Icy axe and any max shield you like, I like survivor insigs on body armor pieces and brawler's insig on headpiece.

I bowled over eotn in normal mode with this, and hard mode isn't a problem either.

Martin Firestorm · Aug 12, 2008, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Rose

Nope, cause Winter chance the damage type after damage calculation, so you will do the same among of damage. The only difference is that in one case, you will do, lets say, 50 cold damage, in the other case 50 fire damage, but in both cases you will do 50 damage.

But if you're fighting fire resistants, cold damage does more damage than fire damage.

To everyone, OP doesn't have pve only skills.

joshuarodger · Aug 12, 2008, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Rose

Nope, cause Winter chance the damage type after damage calculation, so you will do the same among of damage. The only difference is that in one case, you will do, lets say, 50 cold damage, in the other case 50 fire damage, but in both cases you will do 50 damage.

not anymore. this used to be the case but they fixed that in an update afew months ago. winter converts damage before the calculation now.

Squishy ftw · Aug 12, 2008, 10:44 PM // 22:44

IMO, eles in higher end pve are at their best hitting splinter, ar, and gdw pretty much on recharge.

Age · Aug 12, 2008, 11:28 PM // 23:28

I used air and had no problems with it blinding flash along with invoke although i have been playing air for sometime now instead of fire.

Flightmare · Aug 13, 2008, 12:08 AM // 00:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Desert Rose

Nope, cause Winter chance the damage type after damage calculation, so you will do the same among of damage. The only difference is that in one case, you will do, lets say, 50 cold damage, in the other case 50 fire damage, but in both cases you will do 50 damage.

But back to topic: I would suggest a earth ele with Assassin's Promise, like the one here.

Wasn't that a bug which has been fixed? I don't know anymore.

Improvavel · Aug 13, 2008, 12:35 AM // 00:35

Eles are better at support in high end pve. Don't try to just do damage. You have an high energy pool, good energy management so use it.

Deal some damage with efficient side effects, cast wards, aegis, splinter weapon, you move like a dwarf, stuff like eruption, extinguish, breath of the great dwarf, etc.

Trying to deal damage only might work on tank and spank builds, but that's a very annoying way to play.

Non-armor ignoring damage is a bit crappy in late game.